Makes sense to me. We Christians all have the goal of becoming more like Christ, and well, Christ paid our penalty. The disciples were constantly in jail.

This may, or may not, be on the subject, but it has been on my mind for several weeks now.

How could any church allow an abortion doctor to be an usher? This "doctor" (and I think the term is an oxymoron here) didn't just do abortions, he killed babies just weeks or even days before they were due to be born. They were completely viable.

Now, I am absolutely against the notion that it was in any way justifiable to kill the doctor. Murdering a murderer is still murder, and violates God's Commandment.

But, it seems to me that too many pulpits and too many congregations are silent on this issue today. My own pastor says that he would not preach on it because it would be "divisive" (one of our few ongoing disagreements). Christ was divisive. He said that he would set brother against brother and father against son in the choices he required.

MLK stood up for what was right, and sat down against what was wrong. There was no concern about being divisive. He demanded that we (white people in power) be confronted with the evil of what was segregation and racial discrimination. It made a lot of pastors and congregations uncomfortable, and it divided a lot of churches, but it was in accordance with God's will. The churches that stood against civil rights were just wrong. Churches that turn their heads on the abortion issue are similarly wrong.

One last thing. Our God is a forgiving God. No one is beyond his grace and forgiveness for sin related to abortion, or anything else. His church should welcome all who repent, and help them to deal with their guilt. We have all sinned and fallen short of the will of God. Every church is made up of sinners seeking forgiveness and sanctification. There is no other kind.

Grant, I agree that Tiller should not have been murdered. You asked how could a church allow him to be an usher and I think some churches are just plain blind to sin. Some churches may see the dollar marks of a wealthy donor as a reason for overlooking sin over and over. Yes, I too was surprised when I first heard about his position in a church. At one time my husband told me that he believes people often choose churches based on the sins that particular churches will tolerate. It is sad but seemingly true in some cases. I think about the church Tiller went to and consider with his fame that many may have chosen not to go to the church where he went. Sadly he was not a good representative of one who had attained spiritual growth from his involvement with church. People need to be very discerning in choosing a church and find one that honors all of God's Holy Word. Otherwise the church members and staff appear as lukewarm to God and He spits them out. I think you have a good opportunity to say some prayers for your pastor that he would have a change of heart on his decision to overlook the issue. God bless you.

Janice, you make several very good points. In fairness to my pastor, he is absolutely pro-life and anti-abortion. He just doesn't see it as a cause he wants to push from the pulpit, because it is so inflamatory. I wouldn't attend a church that openly tolerated it, much less supported it, but I can live with his personal right to choose his sermons. When confronted on the issue, he comes out strong, but sensitive.

Another issue of "obeying God" has to do with what we allow our children to be taught in school. On this one we don't even get a choice. If your child goes to a public school, he/she is going to be fed a steady diet of politically correct and morally offensive stuff.

Grant, I feel you are correct in the way you feel about this issue however when something as important as abortion of almost full-term babies are happening in the area of a church sometimes the Pastor needs to address the issue to let his people know how he feels. Yes we do have a right to preach what ever God places on our heart but sin is sin and God will deal with his men (preachers)about problems in their area. I am not saying your pastor is wrong because he is not, I have faced this very same problem in our church because a family started asking questions concerning one of their family member. I also have faced the issue about June being Homosexual month, this is wrong also. If we are not going to hardly acknowledge the day of prayer openly, it is just pitiful to project a sinful lifestyle (which the Bible describes as such)and expect the Christians of this Nation to remain silents. Well I will get off of my stump. Everyone have a good day.

Grant, I do agree that your pastor has to preach as he feels led by God and he is responsible for his decisions to God as Jerry said. I guess my main concern is that your pastor may at some point have a lost opportunity because sometimes people go to church looking for answers to issues they are struggling with. If a young woman or her boyfriend/husband or parent went to church to try to get a word from God about their immediate struggle and they find nothing then they might wrongly justify it as God did not speak on the issue. I know this occasion would be rare but the potential is there to save a life of a baby if a pastor is willing to just talk about when God says life begins. Most pastors seem to be blessed with the knack of being compassionate about delicate subjects. I think perhaps your pastor does not feel confident that he can handle this in a way that is beneficial to all. He needs to just look to God to give him the words. I think sometimes pastors are not aware of the multitude of situations God puts before them on any given Sunday in the pews. The folks need to hear all of God's word. I know I have probably said too much but I just know how some people approach God and church and only go when they have a major concern and are seeking answers and they look to the pastor to fully represent God to them. It is an awesome responsibility. This is a reminder to pray for all the pastors for they are viewed as the doorkeepers of heaven for many.

I think I confused things by sounding like I was being critical of my pastor. My criticism was of the church as a whole. As a rule, the Baptists are more likely to take a stand from the pulpit and I like that. Reformed Presbyterians and Independent churches (usually a Baptist trained preacher like Andy Stanley or John McArthur) also speak out.

My preacher is a fine man. He has counseled numerous women on the issue of unplanned pregnancy, my daugter included, and has saved many a baby. It may be as much a denominational thing, we're Methodists, as anything. Methodists tend to accentuate being inclusive. So far, we haven't let the abortion or sexual orientation divide the church, but theres always a "confrontation" at the National Meeting.

Jesus said that there would come a time when wrong would be called right and evil would be called good. That false teaching would abound and many more would follow their "itchy ears" than the word of God. It sure feels like that has been the trend since I graduated high school in 1963.

God help us. We are "aliens" in this world. Won't it be great to be on His side when He returns!

I understand what you are saying, Grant, about the differences in the denominations. I was Methodist but felt led to become a Baptist. My husband still remains in the Methodist church. I still have many good feelings about the accomplishments of the Methodist church. To give credit to my former Methodist pastor he did a sermon about abortion from his personal experience in that he could have been aborted based on how his mother was advised. It was a powerful sermon, one of his best. I am sure your pastor is a fine man and it is good to know that he does the personal counseling to help people in that situation. Heaven will be a wonderful place where differences in denomination won't matter and abortion will not longer be a consideration. And pastors won't have to decide whether or not to follow the path of civil disobediece. See you there some day!

Thanks Janice. Not only will we see each other, I expect to see millions of formerly unwanted children. God bless.

Grant and Janice, Have you ever just sat and pondered on what heaven will be like? I believe also that there will be millions of beautiful children who were aborted just running around the throne and I can see Jesus laughing and playing with them. I am not in a hurry to die but when he is ready for me I am ready to go. I almost made it there a couple of times but one day he will be ready for me and I will see all of us believers there. God bless everyone

That is a beautiful thought, Grant and Jerry, about all those children with Jesus because he always gives time to children. And there will be reunions of those aborted with their moms and dads and other family members who accepted Jesus as their Savior. Heaven will be awesome!

Jerry, As my 83 year old mother says, "I'm ready but not in a hurry".