Hmmmmm.... even the demons truly believe that Jesus is the Son of God... and tremble. It is not just semantics to make the distinction that "Faith in God (in addition to belief) is about trust and obedience", eh?

How do you get from "there is no moral consensus" to "people believe [God] has no relevance to their everyday life."??

Maybe the God that I believe in has different rules than the God YOU believe in.

Once again it seem you have missed the point Eric, this was a survey conducted by Patterson and Kim and their findings.This was not something Bryant got out of the Bible. However Gods rules have worked for thousands of years when they are followed but when they have not been followed man got into trouble. You can even find proof of this in secular history. Look at the history of the Jewish people from the beginning of time and not from Biblical writing, they have had times when nothing they did prospered, this is when they was in a rebellous mood, but when they repented God blessed them and they prospered. Myself I will stick with God and the Bible you can do what you want and see if your god blesses you, if your life is what you want it to be, then good for you.

People who believe in God, based on "It seems to me that..." Things are often not what they seem.
An ancient people knew that the the thing that makes the wind blow is trees waiving their branches. Tall trees can tell when rain is coming on the horizon. They waive their branches to call the rain over to them.
Small bushes don't waive their branches until the rain is closer because they can't see so far off.
Plants inside buildings never waive their branches because they never see the rain. They are sad.
Seems like they were right.
There is a source for truth and it is not your imagination.

Erik,

You twisted the logical progression. And omited the words, "In other words." And inserted the word "believe" in the wrong place.

Who are you trying to persuade with such obviously manipulated statements like yours?

Austin

There is a huge difference in believing there is a god (little g) and believing in THE GOD of the Bible. Many people only believe in the god that they create in conformity to their own preferences. They may say that it is the God of the Bible, but they haven't read enough about this God to really know who He is. More importantly, they have not received His Son into their hearts and lives.

Bryant's point, I believe, is that unless you turn your will over to God's will for your life your "belief" is only superficial. I once had this kind of belief and the difference between it and the real thing is beyond my ability to describe.

Erik, I thought that you believed only in "objective reality"? I saw a great interview from 1961 of Ayn Rand by Mike Wallace on You-Tube that you would like. She was one of the founders of the Objective Reality movement. I still pray that God will move in your life and turn you to his will. Keep coming to this site. I think it may be God's way of reaching you. We need you inside the family!

Actually, Erik, you didn't insert the word "believe" in the wrong place, you misquoted the entire sentence by leaving out the words "there is a God but."

I did not misquote the passage. If you can't see the glaring logical error in this devotion then we can not have a meaningful discussion.

I'm not sure I see your point Erik. I think the word "but" makes the point logical. Maybe he should have said, "people SAY THEY believe their is A God, but THEIR GOD has no relevance in their everyday life".

Among this 90%, their is no consensus about where their morality comes from, because they don't get it by consulting God or religion.

In any event, I think the point of the message is for each of us to ask ourselves where we turn when faced with moral decisions.

Hi Erik,
Haven't forgotten about you. Still praying for you. God bless :-)

Grant- that is exactly my point. How does he KNOW their God has no relevance if he doesn't know who their God is?? Maybe they believe in a live and let live kind of God, who knows?

I would say it's actually a good thing that people DON'T believe what the God of the bible says, otherwise their would be a lot more misery in this country. For example, Jesus says clearly that the only reason a person can be divorced is in the case of adultery. So why do evangelical Christians get divorced at the same rate (or higher rate) than non-believers? It's because they clearly don't believe all that nonsense in the Bible.

Unfortunately there are a multitude of reasons that people get divorced, including Christians. Some either marry in what is termed as unequally yoked, which means they marry someone who isn't a christian. Or they themselves are not christians when they first get married and become one later. Either way you'll end up with one person "hopefully" trying to follow the guidelines that God puts forward for marriage and the other person probably not and this naturally is going to cause a problem. I've noticed on this site in the prayer section that this tends to be the major problem & reason for a divorce situation. That having been said, we as christians are certainly NOT perfect by no means and can be tempted and sin just as well as anyone. I don't think you'll find anyone on this site claiming to be perfect. We believe that when we accept Christ that we receive the Holy Spirit who will guide us and if we listen to this guidance rather than the temptings of satan we will avoid whatever sin is before us, but it is when we selfishly want to do things our own way and close our hearts and minds to the Spirits warning that we fall into trouble and that can lead to divorce between two christians as well as anyone else. That's all I'm saying on the subject because it will start getting totally off topic.

No Erik, people who believe what the God of the Bible really says understand that there is no way for them to fullfil the requirements of the Law for ten minutes in our own strength. That's why Jesus had to come and do it for us. By living a perfect life, he was able to stand before God as a sinless sacrifice, a lamb without blemish, wholly acceptable as ransom for our sinful souls. Every soul that is turned over to him is washed whiter than snow in his blood, and we are able to stand before a Just God acceptable to him because of this great exchange.

I know that this is nonsense to you, because God hasn't yet opened the eyes of your heart to see the grace and truth of this. Jesus pours grace upon grace on those who receive him as their lord, their high priest and their savior. I pray that God will open your eyes to this wonderful truth.

Grant- so since they can't fulfill the law- not even jesus' one little rule, then I guess why bother trying.

We know that Jesus didn't come to abide by the law but he came to fulfill the law and he did with his death on the cross. Thank God for this.

No Erik. That's the whole point. We can't, but Jesus did do it for us. That's "the great exchange". As much Bible as you seem to know, I'm certain that you must at least understand what is met by the sustitutionary death of Jesus. That He died for the sins of the world. That all you need to do is to claim the gift of his abundant and totally sufficient grace.

Grant,
The problem with a Athiest accepting Jesus as their Savior is the fact that they will have to give up control of a part of their life and they are not willing to do this.

Jerry, Isn't that the issue for all, especially the "rugged American" characiture. We want to be in control. It's amazing how many people find God "at the end of their rope"!

I can't "save Erik". Only God, the Holy Spirit, can do that. But I can pray. It's never too late, as long as he's breathing anyway.

Grant,
Amen to each of your points. I was asked to go speak to a Dad of one of my members about the Lord. This gentleman is 91 years old and it seems that he has had his fill of religous people and their actions. We don't know what kind of help or harm we bring upon the lives of the people we meet, that is why we need to project Christ and leave the Jerry's , Grant's and Eric's out of the picture. I don't know if this man is saved or not because he wouldn't even talk to me. I am not his judge, I just want to pray for him and hope if he is not saved that he will accept the Lord before it is too late. I am sure that in his eyes his reasons are right, mine are - are they not? Have a blessed day.

Grant and Eric,
I did not mean any disrespect to either of you when I mentioned your names in my previous post, I just picked a couple of names that posts regularly. If I upset either of you please forgive me.

No offense taken.

At the end of the day, it is left for each to die and then judgement. Your member is struggling with things "on this side of death". Soon, he and the Lord will work it out. The Lord knows what is in his heart. We don't.